A provocative post from David Garrigues This morning, What about the other 7 limbs, I think we need to read it a couple of times and reflect on what he actually is and perhaps more importantly not saying.
He seems to be concerned that some feel that we progress from asana to pranayama to meditation, leaving asana behind in the process, I've come across that idea before in some of the comments on my posts here and yet I doubt those same commentators would argue that one would leave behind Yama niyama on progressing to meditation practice.
If I see another post or comment on what Yoga is or isn't, I swear I'll....... Let's leave the ontic questions to one side shall we, just for a little while.
Our practice then becomes more sophisticated, more subtle perhaps... as we become more 'proficient' ( Jois seems to have used 'perfect' but I prefer Krishnamacharya's 'proficient'), the limbs reflecting back on each other like a hall of mirrors.
David does appear to be suggesting that a seated meditation practice is not necessary even going so far as to suggest seated meditation is not part of our Jois Ashtanga lineage but rather we should seek the meditative quality in/of our asana and pranayama practice,
"The source of this idea that there is something else besides the daily practice did not come from within the lineage, because according to Sri K. Pattabhi Jois, the practice is IT, there is not another set of techniques that join or replace what you already do (other than the eventual addition of pranayama) And thus there ought not to be a need, among the circle of serious ashtanga students and teachers, to defend the central premise of the method that says the best means to Self knowledge is through performing your asana’s daily as your life long sadhana (discipline)."
but I'm not convinced that is his intention in this article, he closes with this
"The asana vs meditation question perfectly illustrates that there is a collective need among us to allow for a wider interpretation of what constitutes practice. The system ought to encourage you to decide for yourself what aspect or technique to emphasize. Exercising freedom and independence becomes increasingly important as you log in the years of practice and gather knowledge and maturity in the system. And thus it is one thing to decide that you want to allot a portion of your practice to a seated meditation practice from a different tradition. But it is another thing to decide that asana or the system is deficit in itself. To find fault or shortcoming in the technique of asana is simply to misunderstand the depth of technique and the creativity that is required to develop your asanas to full maturity".
A while back many were saying a pranayama practice was not necessary as Ashtanga is a breathing practice David however stresses the importance of an ongoing pranayama practice. Surely an ongoing seated meditation practice is as important as deepening our asana practice, our approach to our asana practice whatever series or whatever form our asana practice takes.
I would argue that however profound the meditative quality we find in our asana practice ( and I do find my Ashtanga meditative, my vinyasa Krama profound) surely it is not, nor will it ever be a substitute for seated meditation where 'nothing else is going on' but just sitting and focussing on one point, one object and then on no object, that's the Yoga sutras right there and David Gordon White or not, the Yoga Sutras certainly are a stressed aspect of the Jois Ashtanga lineage.
I'd like to ask Richard Freeman about this he has both a proficient seated meditation practice and asana practice, would he say one is a substitute for the other?
Or perhaps my friend Hyon Gak Sunim who is both a Korean Zen Monk and an Ashtanga practitioner http://vimeo.com/73936096
Mirror of Zen /// A Day in the Moment of a Modern Zen Monk from Christine Schmitthenner on Vimeo.
Below though is David on 'stillness in movement' read this perhaps before this morning article, What about the other 7 limbs to give it some context.
He seems to be concerned that some feel that we progress from asana to pranayama to meditation, leaving asana behind in the process, I've come across that idea before in some of the comments on my posts here and yet I doubt those same commentators would argue that one would leave behind Yama niyama on progressing to meditation practice.
If I see another post or comment on what Yoga is or isn't, I swear I'll....... Let's leave the ontic questions to one side shall we, just for a little while.
Our practice then becomes more sophisticated, more subtle perhaps... as we become more 'proficient' ( Jois seems to have used 'perfect' but I prefer Krishnamacharya's 'proficient'), the limbs reflecting back on each other like a hall of mirrors.
David does appear to be suggesting that a seated meditation practice is not necessary even going so far as to suggest seated meditation is not part of our Jois Ashtanga lineage but rather we should seek the meditative quality in/of our asana and pranayama practice,
"The source of this idea that there is something else besides the daily practice did not come from within the lineage, because according to Sri K. Pattabhi Jois, the practice is IT, there is not another set of techniques that join or replace what you already do (other than the eventual addition of pranayama) And thus there ought not to be a need, among the circle of serious ashtanga students and teachers, to defend the central premise of the method that says the best means to Self knowledge is through performing your asana’s daily as your life long sadhana (discipline)."
but I'm not convinced that is his intention in this article, he closes with this
"The asana vs meditation question perfectly illustrates that there is a collective need among us to allow for a wider interpretation of what constitutes practice. The system ought to encourage you to decide for yourself what aspect or technique to emphasize. Exercising freedom and independence becomes increasingly important as you log in the years of practice and gather knowledge and maturity in the system. And thus it is one thing to decide that you want to allot a portion of your practice to a seated meditation practice from a different tradition. But it is another thing to decide that asana or the system is deficit in itself. To find fault or shortcoming in the technique of asana is simply to misunderstand the depth of technique and the creativity that is required to develop your asanas to full maturity".
A while back many were saying a pranayama practice was not necessary as Ashtanga is a breathing practice David however stresses the importance of an ongoing pranayama practice. Surely an ongoing seated meditation practice is as important as deepening our asana practice, our approach to our asana practice whatever series or whatever form our asana practice takes.
I would argue that however profound the meditative quality we find in our asana practice ( and I do find my Ashtanga meditative, my vinyasa Krama profound) surely it is not, nor will it ever be a substitute for seated meditation where 'nothing else is going on' but just sitting and focussing on one point, one object and then on no object, that's the Yoga sutras right there and David Gordon White or not, the Yoga Sutras certainly are a stressed aspect of the Jois Ashtanga lineage.
I'd like to ask Richard Freeman about this he has both a proficient seated meditation practice and asana practice, would he say one is a substitute for the other?
Or perhaps my friend Hyon Gak Sunim who is both a Korean Zen Monk and an Ashtanga practitioner http://vimeo.com/73936096
Mirror of Zen /// A Day in the Moment of a Modern Zen Monk from Christine Schmitthenner on Vimeo.
Below though is David on 'stillness in movement' read this perhaps before this morning article, What about the other 7 limbs to give it some context.
Perfect that Single Asana!
The theme or premise is that asana practice is based on a single asana created by breath. That posture could have several names including
The theme or premise is that asana practice is based on a single asana created by breath. That posture could have several names including
Shavasana, Sarvangasana,
Hanumanasana, Samasthiti
Tadasana, Bhairavasana
Mula Bandhasana
Generally speaking in our daily practice we can get sucked in by the lure of our fantasy about the forms of the asanas in sequences. Each asana in the sequence could be thought of as an excursion towards and/or away from that one single asana that is the essence of all asana. In our fantasy of what we will look like and how good it will feel we overextend ourselves in our efforts to achieve what we consider to be the end goal or final pose. Our excursions take us too far away from the center where the skeletal support is, where our breath really does lead the way-- where we make optimal use of our muscles and organs and where our brains are situated properly to minimize reality obscuring ego striving.
For example, to go for a drop back and be unheeding of the position of the skeleton in order to get your hands to the floor is a long term mistake. In the short term there might be a thrill, a sense of accomplishment and a sense of maximizing progress. a feeling like you are working at the edge so you will improve and be an intense student--- (like yoga sutra 1-21 for the intense student--- yoga--nirodah is near). How strict are you going to be? How close to center are you going to stay? How many props (please note: only if necessary and desired and under certain, specific conditions) are you willing to use to remain close to center, close to principles?---We want to explore the foundational principles of the positions and see how those principles will always lead back to that central asana that has so many important names---but actually is unnameable---
--- this is precisely why asana is limb 3 and Samadhi is limb 8--- samadhi is more based around the center, where movement is subtle and stillness reigns---
you have to be sure you are not sacrificing your body to your ego. That you are not going too far in order to compensate for unconscious feelings of unworthiness--- you don't need to use your asana practice to 'prove' you are good and worthy.
and yet don't underestimate the amount of shakti, energy, both physical and mental, that it takes to strike a pose and remain utterly centered in dynamic absorption.
It is ironic that the more gymnastic posture appears to be more difficult---But from an energetic and emotional place, sitting, working with breathing, can be more challenging, require more energy--- because of what will be revealed about you, because of what you will experience about yourself."
*******
Update
Just noticed this video from David posted 'one day ago'
Take a look perhaps at my previous post, an interview with Pattabhi Jois where he discusses Seated meditation.*******
Update
Just noticed this video from David posted 'one day ago'
"What about the other limbs of ashtanga yoga?
Do you teach a method of meditation?
K Pattabhi Jois: Meditation is Dhyana, the seventh step in the Ashtanga system. After one step is perfect, then you take the next step. For dhyana, you must sit with a straight back with your eyes closed and focus on the bridge of the nostrils. If you don't do this, you're not centered. If the eyes open and close, so does the mind.
Do you teach a method of meditation?
K Pattabhi Jois: Meditation is Dhyana, the seventh step in the Ashtanga system. After one step is perfect, then you take the next step. For dhyana, you must sit with a straight back with your eyes closed and focus on the bridge of the nostrils. If you don't do this, you're not centered. If the eyes open and close, so does the mind.
Yoga is 95 percent practical. Only 5 percent is theory. Without practice, it doesn't work; there is no benefit. So you have to practice, following the right method, following the steps one by one. Then it's possible. "